Sessions with System & Soul

Soul Dive: Stop Letting a Dead Battery Lead Your Business

• Benj Miller, McKenzie Decker • Season 1 • Episode 14

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What if the way you manage your time, energy, and resources is shaping your entire company culture?

In this soul-first conversation, Benj and McKenzie sit down to explore the hidden mindset behind great leadership: abundance vs. scarcity. This isn’t just a theory. It’s a lens that could reframe how you hire, delegate, invest, and even walk into your next meeting.

Benj opens up about his lived experience as an Enneagram Five, where hoarding energy felt like a survival strategy. He shares how that scarcity mindset once showed up in his leadership and what changed when he shifted toward generosity, trust, and abundance. McKenzie brings the operator’s view, showing how systems-thinking can quickly tip into control and fear without intention.

Inside this Soul Dive:

  • The myth of limited energy and how it sabotages team growth
  • What a scarcity mindset really looks like in meetings, decisions, and relationships
  • How leaders unintentionally withhold ideas, tools, or praise — and what it costs
  • The ripple effect of one brave share and how it unlocks a team’s potential
  • Why gratitude and generosity are more than emotions — they are leadership strategies
  • How to shift the energy in the room with one question: What mindset am I bringing in today?

You’ll hear honest reflections, small but powerful mindset shifts, and a deeper invitation to show up as a leader who multiplies, not manages.

This episode is for anyone who has ever felt the tension between conserving and contributing, between self-protection and impact. If you’ve been leading from caution, this is your permission to try something different.

Because abundance isn’t just a feeling. It’s a decision. And when leaders make that shift, everything else starts to flow.

You don’t have to wait for more time, more budget, or more certainty. The invitation is here. Step into abundance today.

Sessions is hosted by Benj Miller and McKenzie Decker

The best businesses aren’t just built on strategy, they’re built on soul.

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Sponsored by Fist Bump

Mckenzie: [00:00:00] Hey, welcome back to Sessions with System and Soul. We are so glad you're joining us. It means a lot to us that you would spend your time with us and just learn what we're trying to learn as we go and lead and help others do the same. I'm Mackenzie and I'm here with Benj and today we have a, what we call a 

Mckenzie: A Soul Dive is, I mean, it is what it sounds like. it's looking at kind of the inside of your mind, the inside of your heart, and how it affects your business. 'cause those things are not mutually exclusive. As much as we might wanna believe that the heart of the leader affects the business more than anything.

Mckenzie: today is about giving you space to think about that space to process some of the emotional side of leadership, the philosophical side of leadership, the identity side of leadership. So that's what we're doing today. and we couldn't do it without fist bump. Fist bump is our content creator. They help us bring this show to you.

Mckenzie: if you are trying to build some kind of content engine, I could not recommend them more. [00:01:00] Get fist bump.com and, and let's jump in. Benj, Let's get to it. So today we're talking about, there's a couple things we're hitting on here, but there's the idea of abundance and yeah, there's a gap that's created when we don't have it.

Mckenzie: tell me what you have in mind today. 

Benj: Well, your setup was perfect because this is something that is kind of vulnerable to me. I've had to learn the hard way. to give you some context, if you know anything about Enneagram, I'm in an Enneagram five. There are nine types on the Enneagram, but one of the things that the Enneagram five struggles with, is what they call hoarding.

Benj: and so it's like, the way they describe it is a constant. Conscious or subconscious awareness of our battery in life and it's our battery of resources, whether that's time or money or material things, whatever. It's like, like when I look at my calendar at the beginning of the day, my instinct is like.

Benj: Do I have enough to make it through the day? I'm [00:02:00] weighing my battery. I have this much energy, especially as an extreme introvert. That one's a big one for me, is just my energy through the day of what the day demands. If it requires a lot of, you know, anything social, it's ohoh, that's gonna be a big drain.

Benj: I'm gonna need a lot of recovery, but it's actually a lie. But it's almost a hardwired lie that I've had to really work to overcome. And a lot of it comes back to this idea that you set up of what is my mindset coming in? Because a battery is a great analogy of a scarcity mindset.

Benj: There is only so much. Yeah. I have to protect it. I have to be really careful who has access to it. And so, you know, to set this up Think about abundance and scarcity on a spectrum. We're not a hundred percent one or a hundred percent another. And it's not like you're this and I'm this.

Benj: It's at any given day, at any given moment, we're somewhere. That spectrum between abundance and scarcity and, the scarcity is saying there is [00:03:00] not enough. it's just, that's the mindset scarcity. There's not enough, which means, oh yeah, absolutely, We can go there. That's part of it, that's part of the scarcity mindset for sure.

Benj: But if you, if your mind says there isn't enough, then the reaction is, I have to get more or I have to protect what I have. Right. now we talk about a scarcity mindset, but what does that do? It makes us act out of, show up in a leadership scenario or in our life or whatever, with I have to protect and I have to get what's mine, or I have to get more, or I have to, whatever.

Benj: if we step over to the other side of that, we talk about the abundance mindset. The abundance mindset says I have so much. Which sometimes I make myself say that, and it feels I do not feel that. I do not feel I have so much. Whatever the category is. Right? But then you make yourself, this is where gratitude's huge.

Benj: If I go, whoa, wait. I actually do have so much. I have so much of what actually matters, and you have to know what those are, and we could talk about [00:04:00] a gratitude practice or whatever, but what that makes you do. When you have so much, the question becomes the problem. The action becomes.

Benj: I have to give, I have so much I have to give. We go from what I have to get or protect to. I have to give you think about, you know, if we, if we think about this in very little literal terms, you've got. Bill and Melinda Gates, right? they have so much, so they had to create this foundation. And it's actually a problem how much they have to give away because it becomes hard to do that responsibly, right?

Benj: But you're acting out of this abundance. I have to give it away. you've got the gap. If you're on the scarcity side, you've got the gap between where you are and what you think you need, where you are and where you want to be. And if you're there. You're just always acting outta that scarcity mindset.

Benj: If you come over to the abundance mindset with, I have so much. Now you're acting outta the gain. And the best way to do that is to look backwards, the gaps, looking forward, where am I versus where I wanted to be, where I think I [00:05:00] should be, where I whatever want to be in the future. The gain says, look at where I am from last year, how much I've grown.

Benj: Yeah, how much you know this and this and this and this. And if you focus on, on that is absolutely huge. I'll give you a very silly example 'cause I'm really proud of it. But, you know, I could sit here and go, man, I am struggling to lose like 5% body fat, which I've been trying to do. Maybe not trying hard enough for the last six months.

Benj: I could sit there and do that, but like yesterday. I hit a PR on my deadlift. I'm 46 years old and hit a day, personal record on my deadlift. I'm like, okay, that's, I've been working and it's showing up. 

Mckenzie: Yeah, I, that's a, that's a great example, and I think I've seen that as you talk through this.

Mckenzie: I, I see that in our business, and this happens, this conversation, the scarcity abundance. dilemma, I feel like happens every time. Not every time. I shouldn't say every time, but, it happens at times when we look at our cash flow or we look at our, our [00:06:00] financial docs and we're like, we've been, you know, we're, we can.

Mckenzie: The conversation goes one of two ways. I think, depending on our mindset, we're either like, we're not where we wanna be, or this didn't go this quarter, didn't go the way that we wanted it to. We're not. We don't look like X organization, we're not moving at the rate of X. You know? Or we come in and we're like, that was 20% growth year over year.

Mckenzie: Like that's pretty great. Like Yeah, 

Benj: yeah. 

Mckenzie: Like, but I feel like it's totally just us. The numbers, they're not different. They, yeah, the numbers are the same and we, it's how we come in, come into it and look at it. And I think specifically. The way that's impacted us is I look at our business is like, if we're always thinking we're not where we wanna be, the numbers don't look the way we want them to, we don't have enough yet.

Mckenzie: It doesn't help us make it has not helped us make good decisions to go get more and do the right things. It just like you said, we just hoard what we have and we're like, [00:07:00] well, we can't, you know, use this. Budget for anything new, we've gotta hold onto it in case anything, you know, anything goes wrong. But we're also not making decisions that help us expand or grow.

Mckenzie: Right, right. In that mindset. I definitely see that, like even when it comes to, to those conversations. 

Benj: Yeah. It's like that scarcity mindset. We think we're protecting, we think we're getting, but we're, it's really working against us. We're working against ourselves, but it also shows up in, like, you and I had a very real exchange last week or the week before where, you in exchange, we're getting real now.

Benj: but you brought something to me and I had had a late flight the night before. Got in super early. I had, Had gotten bad news twice from two different people within the last 24 hours. very emotional, you know, and, and you, 

Mckenzie: I was asking something of you. I was like, I need Yeah. You, I need, I can't remember 

Benj: [00:08:00] exactly.

Mckenzie: Yeah. I'm like, I need you to do X and 

Benj: yeah. And I was, and I, my space was like, I don't have, I wasn't this aware and just say that and fix my brain and come back and help you. But like I was unhelpful because I was trying to protect myself. 'cause I didn't feel like I have any, anything in my tank. I didn't, I don't even remember how I reacted, but I did not serve you or the problem well because I was acting out of my scarcity mindset.

Mckenzie: Well, I mean, just to give every, everybody I think has run into this, so we'll de i, if you don't mind, I'm just gonna describe the exchange here, the exchange conflict. the exchange started with, and, you know, maybe there was a. There's a portion of that that I was acting out of scarcity of I'm not getting enough from Benj right now.

Mckenzie: And so I reached out to you in a way that was kind of, you know, that put you on the defensive, but I reached out. Timing did not work well for where you were at and your scarcity [00:09:00] mindset. And so the outcome of our exchange or our, you know, our, we kind of clashed and you were like, Hey. You know, I can't deal with this right now.

Mckenzie: It was kind of like the vibe I got and I, and then I got like, you have to deal with it. Like we have to deal with, we have to get this done. And then we spent, this is the we for everybody here. Like we worked it out because that's what we're gonna do and we, these things are gonna happen, these conversations are gonna happen.

Mckenzie: But what I would say is us, it took the time and energy of a couple of days of us having to work it out to get past. The, the scarcity mindset and it just, it's a necessary thing. But I'm just, I wanna point out like that took a lot of time and energy for us to deal with the scarcity mindset. Yeah.

Mckenzie: I think the question for all of us is where are we expend more time than necessary because we're living in this, this scarcity, there's not enough, this person's not doing enough, we don't have [00:10:00] enough yet. Think about how many negative calories that burns in your brain every day.

Mckenzie: And I mean, I really struggle, I struggle with that because I as the operator, I feel like I see all of the resources and I have to manage them. And so I'm constantly taking inventory of do we have enough over here? Are we doing enough over here? And so I say that to say I empathize with people who, who.

Mckenzie: Struggle getting outta that mindset, but I'm just recognizing how limiting it can be and how time consuming it is. 

Benj: Yeah. Yeah, that's a great example. 'cause if we go back to the battery concept, like we think we're protecting it, but we're actually using more, you are expending the battery by the way that we're showing up by the way that we're dealing with the situation, holding back the team.

Benj: all of those things. There's a couple other mindsets that go to it. Like scarcity is a, is a greed mindset versus abundance is a, a gratitude mindset, which is actually the quickest one to shift. Like if you're [00:11:00] feeling the scarcity to go to the gratitude bucket and that flips the switch pretty quick.

Benj: I've found that people, maybe this is or isn't part of your job, but in the scarcity mindset, we feel like we have to sell in an abundance mindset. We feel like we get to serve. 

Mckenzie: That is so, that in particular is so huge in especially when I think about business development. And like the way that you show up in that is so, even if you're not saying anything, it's how you should, right?

Mckenzie: People sense it. They're like, oh my gosh, they're gonna try to sell me rather than I'm here to help. Like I'm, 

Benj: yep. 

Mckenzie: It's a, it's just a very obvious thing when it's in play. 

Benj: Totally. scarcity mindset says I must. Like there's a, there's a pressure and a weight. I must do this. I must be that. I must, you know, blah, blah, blah.

Benj: It's all this expectation and pressure and an abundance mindset comes in and says, I am. I'm enough, I'm here, I'm [00:12:00] present. It's, rooted in an identity, and a place of confidence that you can walk in with whatever, however much preparation, however much expertise, however much whatever, and you're just, and it just is.

Benj: I am. so that, that's entering with a place of abundance. Then there's a bunch of places where this is ethereal kind of conversation to a lot of people. But if you take it down to the practical, When you show up as a leader, when you show up to lead a team, when you manage your team's resources, when you think about your clients, when you think about your energy, when you think your value to the world around you to your enterprise, when you think about how you price your fees for your products or services, your relationships, your opportunities, your activities, all of these, we could almost.

Benj: Like put a, the scale down on a piece of paper and say, Hey, where, when I think about the impact that I have in the world, where does it go on the scale? When I think about how I pri and my, my [00:13:00] approach toward pricing, am I coming from a scarcity mindset or an abundance mindset? You know, like all of those things, we could actually sit down and do a little exercise where we're plotting even your self-worth.

Benj: Like, where am I? Where am I showing up outta my self-worth on a scarcity mindset or on abundance mindset. And that energy is part of that who you are when you show up to the room, which is maybe back to the battery thing. 'cause if you're, if you're operating out of a full battery, then you've got a lot of energy to give to the world around you.

Benj: And if we're operating with the illusion that our battery's on empty. You know, it's turning yellow or red, then we're in conservation mode and we're not doing ourselves a favor and we're not doing the world around us a favor. 

Mckenzie: Yeah, that's so true. Two things come to mind. You know, you probably heard that It's a, the saying, don't believe everything you think.

Mckenzie: Yeah. I mean that. I feel like in order to move out of that scarcity mindset, into the abundance mindset, [00:14:00] there's this like the pause of, what I'm thinking true. Is the battery, is the battery really exist here or Yeah. Is this an artificial, an artificial thought that's here to trying to protect me in some way?

Mckenzie: just to be honest, it, an example of this comes to me from just even yesterday doing this show is such a vulnerable thing for, I know for both of us. 'cause this is, it's hard to talk about stuff that's as it's happening or we wanna bring something great to the table for everybody who subscribes and listens to this.

Mckenzie: And, and at times when you're creating content, it's like, do people care? Like, does anybody listen to this? it's, you can't help but think that, and then, and there's also why would anybody listen to me? like I can't tell you how many people are like I've talked with. Our community, our coach, community and business community, they're like, I just don't think I have anything important to say.

Mckenzie: And, 

Benj: that's how I feel. I feel like all this has been said. I'm just reiterating what I [00:15:00] learned from somebody else or read somewhere else. that, the one that goes through my mind all the time, is nobody needs another talking head to say these things. 

Mckenzie: That, yeah. And I think you can apply that to any kind of.

Mckenzie: Industry or, or business. It's you could spend, you could sit in that mindset of who really needs that? I don't have anything new to give there. And then I needed this yesterday, but I, I had a conversation with somebody who's 25 years old and learning how to lead and learning how to show up well in her role.

Mckenzie: And it meant she reached out to me and wanted to just learn more and get some advice. And, and it's because she was watching our show and paying attention. And I if I lived in that scarcity mindset, I would never have done or said any of the things that she needed, And when I have.

Mckenzie: That mindset, it helps me think like, no, we've gotta show up, do this, we've gotta give this away. We've got to, we've gotta say the thing that we think has been said a thousand times and, and that's encouragement for everybody. 'cause there's somebody out there that needs [00:16:00] what you're, what you've got going on and what you're doing.

Mckenzie: And you may be limiting yourself. If you think your batteries, your battery's too low to give it. 

Benj: Here's the thing. If I go back to, I'll just leave with this, and the Enneagram five thing that really helped me bring a lot of this to my awareness is because with the Enneagram, they say it's the mask that you picked up to deal with the chaos and complexity of the world, but it's not your truest self.

Benj: The mask is the lie. And so what that means is that it truly is a choice how we get to show up in life. And when I remember that when I take the time, like when I click the button to log into a Zoom or when I'm riding the elevator up to a meeting or driving to a meeting, if I can remember to ask myself how I want to show up, then it just brings this awareness and then I get to have the conversation.

Benj: Am I gonna show up like this or am I gonna show up like this? And you can literally make the choice. And it's not a fake it till you make it. It's not, it's really just [00:17:00] deciding that you're gonna bring all of who you are to every moment. That's that. It's asked of you, and I don't always win, but, but I'm trying.

Benj: I'm on the journey. This is my journey. 

Mckenzie: Yeah, just, it's almost just creating the habit of leaning in the other direction, you know? 

Benj: Yep, 

Mckenzie: Well, it's been combo. Great combo. I feel like I needed this today just to. I think I, I'm thinking, what is this day gonna take for me? And now I need to think what is, what can I give to my day?

Mckenzie: Yeah. what's gonna, what is it gonna give back? yeah. I hope that you guys are walking away with something that helps encourage you and lean more into that abundance mindset. Thank you guys for joining us. We will see you next time for another episode of Sessions. 

Benj: Bild Bold.

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Benj Miller

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McKenzie Decker

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